The Saudis Respond Defending Saudi
Arabia against
criticism, Riyadh's
Foreign Minister warns
of an
"insurmountable
gulf" in U.S.-Saudi
relations
By SCOTT
MACLEOD/PARIS Time
On the eve of the
second anniversary of
the 9/11 attacks, Saudi
Foreign Minister Prince
Saud al Faisal is
fuming over continuing
U.S. criticism of Saudi
Arabia for its part in
the atrocity. While
admitting the need for
Saudi internal reform,
he charges that the
Israeli-Palestinian
conflict, not the Saudi
social system, is the
"festering
ground" for
terrorism. He cautions
that if misconceptions
about Saudi Arabia
persist, it may cause an
unbridgeable gap in
long-standing U.S.-Saudi
relations. As for
America's difficulties
in Iraq, the prince
says, "We told you
so."
Excerpts:
TIME: Is all
the criticism of Saudi
Arabia harming
U.S.-Saudi relations?
SAUD: The
media certainly keeps at
it. The Congress seems
to be pre-occupied with
everything that comes
from Saudi Arabia, with
the attitude that we are
guilty until proven
innocent. It is one of
those never ending
stories, until it
finally reaches rock
bottom. I hope by the
time it reaches rock
bottom, it hasn't done
too much damage to the
relationship.
TIME: Has it
already damaged
relations? You were
upset when Congress
recently issued its
report on 9/11
apparently damning Saudi
Arabia and then the Bush
Administration withheld
28 pages of it.
SAUD: We are
angry when we are
accused without being
given a chance to defend
ourselves. When no
matter what you do, it
is considered a public
relations gimmick rather
than a real effort. That
isn't the way that
friends treat each
other. If you are
complaining about
something I have done,
and I do something about
it, some appreciation is
shown, amongst friends.
Yet, whatever we do is
just water under the
bridge, and they go to
another attack. It
starts with the 15
people on the planes
that created this
catastrophe. Then, the
accusation was that the
ulema [Saudi religious
leaders] were talking
and encouraging
[extremism], the schools
were creating
terrorists.
TIME: So, what
has Saudi Arabia done?
SAUD: Now,
Saudi Arabia is against
all terrorists. Whatever
justification [for
terrorism] Saudis
understood before, now
they see they are at war
with these terrorists.
It is not true that the
extremists are gaining
the upper hand. We are
fighting terrorists,
pursuing them
everywhere, closing the
net on them. The
government has arrested
many of the ulema. The
war, as the Crown Prince
said, is a war against
those who wage it, who
encourage it, who
support it, and even
those who tacitly accept
it. If there are in the
pulpits of the mosques
those who urge violence,
they are removed
immediately. In the
schools, the books have
been changed for the new
school year. The
instructions to the
teachers have been
changed. The [terrorist]
money aspect is now
completely controlled
and your government
knows it. In spite of
all the effort, you
still hear talk that
"the schools are
bringing out terrorists,
the ulema are bringing
out terrorists".
TIME: There is
no link between
intolerance taught in
Saudi schools and
mosques and the
production of home-grown
extremists?
SAUD: There
are some elements in the
books that are necessary
to remove and they have
been removed. But that
they were a breeding
ground, a festering
ground for terrorists,
that is not the case.
The festering ground for
terrorists was
Afghanistan and is the
Israeli-Palestinian
crisis. It is not the
social makeup of Saudi
Arabia. You can see this
in the makeup of
al-Qaeda. Maybe they
have some foot soldiers
who are Saudis. All the
leadership of al-Qaeda
except for bin Laden are
not Saudis. Why have we
seen in the 9/11
incident nobody but
Saudis? It was done on
purpose [to harm
U.S.-Saudi relations].
Unfortunately, those in
the U.S., in the media
or in Congress, who
continue to make that
argument, are falling
into the strategy of the
terrorists.
TIME: Is the
criticism indicative of
a new U.S.-Saudi
relationship?
SAUD: There is
nothing wrong with
"a new
relationship". The
previous relationship
had the characteristic
of comfort. You knew
nothing about us, we
knew nothing about you,
I mean the citizens of
both countries. This has
changed. I hope that we
come to know each other
better. But this will
not happen if we are
using untruths and lies
and misconceptions about
each other. If these
misconceptions continue
to rise, they build a
gulf that is
insurmountable. We try
to fight that gulf. We
are finding a hard time
on the other side of the
ocean.
TIME: How do
Saudis look at America
today?
SAUD: One
major element is the
policies of the United
States in the Middle
East. In the media every
day, we see what is
happening in Palestine.
Public opinion is made
by that. [People] see
the violence, they see
the indignity that the
Palestinians are facing.
TIME: Do you
have any interest or
desire to change the
strategic relationship
with the U.S.?
SAUD:
Absolutely not. We have
had mutual interests,
substantial economic
cooperation and
human-to-human contacts
with the United States,
which we believe both
countries gain from.
That's what we want to
come back to.
TIME: Should
we read anything into
Crown Prince Abdullah's
historic visit to Moscow
in early September?
SAUD: We are
almost neighbors. We
believe both of us have
an opportunity to gain
in trade, commerce and
investment between our
two countries. It is not
gamesmanship. If it does
[have an effect on oil
price policies], it
would be a positive
policy. One thing that
nobody has complained
about is Saudi policy on
oil.
TIME: Are you
threatened by ideas
coming from American
neo-conservatives aimed
at bringing about
democracy in Iraq and
elsewhere in the Arab
world?
SAUD: All the
discussions that we had
[with the U.S.] on Iraq
were on concerns about
what happens after the
attack. It is not
diplomatic to say
"We told you
so", but we told
you so, that things
won't work out. Keeping
the security element in
Iraq and running the
government, the water,
the electricity, would
be the important
elements. Iraq was ruled
by perhaps 2 million
military and
paramilitary, and a
million Baathists. You
do away with that, and
how do you run the
country, with 50,000 or
250,000 troops? It is
unmanageable.
TIME: But
doesn't democracy
threaten the Saudi
system?
SAUD: Turning
Iraq into a stable
country, how can this be
disadvantageous to Saudi
Arabia? We were facing a
country that was
attacking us militarily.
We would much rather be
threatened by democratic
ideas than with Scud
missiles and weapons of
mass destruction. [In
Saudi Arabia], real
reform is being done
with the intention of
keeping the social
cohesion and unity of
the country together. We
are not playing
experiments in labs. We
believe we are going at
it with the ear of our
leaders to the heartbeat
of the people, what they
expect, what they need
and how far they want to
go.
TIME: Even
reform-minded Saudis
complain that there is a
lot of talk, but less
action.
SAUD: They
will see, but talk has
to lead action, not the
other way around. We are
not going to have, as
happened [with the Shah]
in Iran, a revolution
from the top forcing the
population into
something that they
don't want.
TIME: How
serious is the threat of
al-Qaeda to Saudi
Arabia?
SAUD: We
believe we can handle
it. And we have done a
pretty good job of it,
but this is no time to
remain complacent, but
vigilant. I hope we
solve the problem and
remove this cancer from
our country. Everyone is
shocked.
Saudi Ambassador to
U.K. Prince Turki
Al-Faisal Interviewed by
Katie Couric, NBC Today
KATIE COURIC, NBC
ANCHOR: Fifteen of
the 19 hijackers on
September 11 were from
Saudi Arabia, and now a
new book alleges that
many high-ranking
officials in Saudi
Arabia may have helped
fund Osama bin Laden and
Al Qaeda. One of those
officials is Prince
Turki Al-Faisal. He
spent more than 20 years
as head of Saudi
intelligence and is
currently Saudi Arabia's
ambassador to Great
Britain. Your Royal
Highness, good morning.
PRINCE TURKI
AL-FAISAL, SAUDI
AMBASSADOR TO GREAT
BRITAIN: Good
morning, Katie. Nice to
talk to you.
COURIC: Well,
nice to have you. As I
mentioned, this new book
by Gerald Posner
specifically names you
as being the person who
donated as much as $2
billion to Osama bin
Laden in hopes of
keeping him in
Afghanistan and out of
Saudi Arabia. You've
acknowledged meeting him
a number of times, so is
there any truth to these
recent allegations?
AL-FAISAL: Absolutely
no truth whatsoever.
When I met bin Laden, it
was before the Soviets
withdrew from
Afghanistan in the '80s.
And the last time was
1990. So the assertion
that I met with him in
1991 is totally false.
And this fellow, Posner,
he bases all these
allegations on unnamed
sources and it makes you
wonder why they're
unnamed.
COURIC: Prince
Turki, could you have
possibly been an
unknowing go-between for
someone higher up in the
Saudi government?
AL-FAISAL: How
can I be unknowing and a
go-between at the same
time, Ms. Couric? This
is totally fabricated
story and without any
basis of fact at all.
And, as I understand it,
even some officials in
the United States have
denied the allegations
made by this fellow
Posner.
COURIC: In his
book, he also describes
the interrogation of a
terrorist known as Abu
Zubaydah, the number
three man in Al Qaeda.
Apparently U.S.
officials rigged up a
room to make it seem as
if he was being
interrogated in Saudi
Arabia. They gave him
sodium pentathol or
truth serum. And
according to the book,
at that point Zubaydah
relaxed, gave
interrogators Saudi
numbers to call and
named three members of
the royal family who
would be able to help
him out of his
situation. And then, in
a very strange twist,
all of those people are
now dead. They all died,
some mysteriously,
within months of each
other. What do you make
of this account?
AL-FAISAL:
Well, this is what makes
it so sad and so really
reviling about the book.
It takes three people
like Prince Faisal bin
Salman, well-known to
the United States
because he was the owner
of one of the Kentucky
Derby winners a couple
of years ago, and two
other princes, and all
three had absolutely
nothing to do either
with politics or with
bin Laden or with
terrorism. And he
maligns them by these
aspersions in his book.
And what he bases his
information on is leaks
from sources in the
administration: one from
the White House as he
claims, and the other
one from the CIA. Why
doesn't he name his
sources so that people
can question them?
And this is what is
so disgusting about the
whole book is that it is
based on unnamed sources
and really a rehashing
of stories that came
about since September
11.
COURIC: Why,
in your view, Prince
Turki, do so many
questions still persist
about Saudi Arabia and
its role in September 11
and its role in the
fight against terrorism?
AL-FAISAL: Well,
I have absolutely no
idea, because what we
have been doing before
and since September 11
is to work very closely
with the United States
in combating terrorism,
and more particularly in
combating Osama bin
Laden. When I was
director of intelligence
in the Kingdom in 1997,
our defense minister
proposed to your
director of central
intelligence - George
Tenet, at the time - the
setting up of a joint
committee to pursue and
follow all of the
actions and information
particularly about bin
Laden. And that
committee has been
meeting since 1997 on
almost a bimonthly
basis, one time in the
States, one time in the
Kingdom. And ...
COURIC: If
that's the case, Prince
Turki, and you were head
of Saudi Arabia's
intelligence service for
24 years, did you have
indication that these
attacks were imminent?
And if so, did you warn
the United States in any
way?
AL-FAISAL: If
we had any indications
that they were imminent,
we would have shared
them with the United
States immediately
because that committee
was standing and working
at that time. But both
of us, the United States
and Saudi Arabia, did
not have that
information.
COURIC: What
do you make of the 28
pages that were redacted
from the official report
by Congress on September
11 having to with Saudi
Arabia? Do you know what
those pages contained?
And how do you feel
about the fact that they
were redacted?
AL-FAISAL:
Well, our foreign
minister went to meet
with President Bush on
this specific issue and
asked him to release
those papers, because we
knew that by not
releasing them it would
leave room for people to
speculate and to make
accusations and to make
innuendoes about Saudi
Arabia and so on.
We have nothing to
fear. If there are any
facts that can be proved
in those 28 or 29 pages
about Saudi Arabia,
let's thrash them out,
bring them out into the
open, and we can follow
them up and investigate
them and jointly take
action against them. But
to leave them
sequestered like that,
without anybody being
able to see them, at
least from our side, is
leaving the situation in
a very terrible state
because we're accused
without knowing what
we're accused of.
COURIC: Prince
Turki, thanks so much
for talking with us
today.
