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SUSRIS:
Thank you for talking with us today about developments in Saudi
Arabia. King Abdullah’s reign is in its first weeks but he has
been the de facto ruler of the Kingdom since 1996. Can you tell us
how the transition is going so far?
Dr.
Ghassan al Sulaiman: As you noted King Abdullah has been the de
facto ruler for the last eight years. So his accession
to the throne is a very positive thing, in that he will be able
to further energize the initiatives he started as the Crown Prince.
It
was also very positive that it was a smooth transition. It showed
there is consensus among the Royal Family about the different
leadership positions in the government and that King Abdullah will
be getting the support that he needs from the influential members of
the Royal Family. It also puts to rest all the rumors we heard about
potential conflict in the Royal Family.
Now
the emphasis can be the important initiatives, especially the reform
initiatives that we need to focus on.
SUSRIS:
The details of the transition were not widely reported in the US
but it does appear to have been very smooth. What was the reaction
among Saudis? Were they surprised that the changes were conducted
without any disagreements?
 Sulaiman:
Actually in Saudi Arabia it was not a surprise. We expected a
smooth transition. But there was uncertainty outside Saudi Arabia,
“Will there be a smooth transition or not?”
The
perceptions outside Saudi Arabia on situations inside Saudi Arabia
are always very different from those of people living there. So the
concern was not there. Most Saudis expected a smooth transition.
They knew that the rumors about some conflict in the Royal Family
were exaggerated and way out of place. So it was not a surprise for
people in Saudi Arabia.
King
Fahd was a very loved person in Saudi Arabia. He had a lot of
support among the public. So we did not expect any problems. It was
good that the process was very smooth so that any concerns there may
have been outside Saudi Arabia are hopefully no longer there. People
are relieved to see that the leadership and governance in Saudi
Arabia continues to be stable, especially with concerns about the
high price of oil in the world markets.
SUSRIS:
Some analysts are now focusing on the next steps in succession: who
will be the second deputy prime minister and what the line of
succession will be in the future. Are Saudis talking about those
issues?
 Sulaiman:
There is some talk about this. But I’ve been here in the
States for awhile so I haven’t heard every detail. I expect there
will be some talk but I want to point out that the Constitution
does not force the King to choose a third in command.
So
the appointment of the Crown Prince is enough to fulfill the
requirements in the Constitution. He does not need to go further and
appoint a second deputy prime minister. He’s already in full
compliance with the Constitution.
SUSRIS:
What do you see happening with the reform movement in light of
the change at the top?
Sulaiman:
I would say, worse case scenario: stay as it is. That’s the
worst-case scenario. It is more likely that it will be energized
because King Abdullah has more authority to support the initiatives
he believes in.
He
has been the premier reformer in Saudi Arabia in the last few years
so we expect that he is going to champion all the initiatives he
believes in, and one of those is the program of reforms.
SUSRIS:
Was it a good sign that King Abdullah pardoned the reformers who
were jailed last year and sentenced in May to long sentences?
 Sulaiman:
Let us not assume that any reform, or actually any program
whether it’s reform or not, is going to be a smooth ride. There
will be mistakes, there will be lessons learned, there will be
positives, there will be negatives, there will be disappointments,
there will be achievements.
On
this issue some people see it as a mistake, others see it as the
right move, but for the outside observers I would ask them to look
at the overall picture. Don’t look at specific small obstacles on
the way. The overall picture is that there is a strong reform
movement in Saudi Arabia. With it are the hiccups that we have from
time to time and that are normal for any country to have. But we are
progressing in the right direction.
Some
will argue that maybe the reform has not gone far enough and is not
moving as quickly enough as they would like to see. They might be
right or they might be wrong, but I think the thing that’s
important is that we’re heading in the right direction. It’s
important to have public support for reforms -- to be sure that it’s
not being carried out just by the leadership. It’s the leadership
plus the strong public support that is driving this reform movement.
SUSRIS:
In your presentation today you talked about the need for a
shared vision and the coordination of reforms. Is it being done? Who
should be doing it?
Sulaiman:
No, I think the development of a shared vision and proper
coordination are things that still have to be done. I don’t feel
that there is any government entity doing it. First of all, it’s
the responsibility of the government. I don’t think it’s the
responsibility of any private sector organization or NGO to do that.
It’s the responsibility of the government to do it and I don’t
believe that there exists now a government entity that has the
responsibility of doing it.
SUSRIS:
Different segments of society take different positions on social
reform issues. Have questions about the nature and pace of reforms
resulted in tensions between groups, for example between members of
the religious community and advocates of reform or members of the
government?
Sulaiman:
I think there is tension and that tension is healthy. Let’s not
jump to the conclusion that tension is always negative. I think it’s
good to have some tension. It’s not always good to have consensus.
I like differences of opinion, because if you don’t get these
differences of opinion then you may have just one narrow path.
What
we need to focus on is a process where all the different viewpoints
are put on the table, where they are discussed openly, without
restrictions and where people are tolerant of different viewpoints.
We need to encourage that kind of culture, not only in this process,
but in other issues Saudi Arabia faces. We need tolerance for all
different viewpoints. Success there will be a key element in the
reform process moving forward.
I
think some people assume there is a religious group acting against
another equally strong group that is not religious. That is not the
case. Saudi Arabian society is a religious and conservative society.
We all want changes within an Islamic context -- a culture that
adheres to the Islamic Sharia. None of us want changes that are
inconsistent with Sharia.
However
there are different interpretations. That’s my first point. We don’t
want to have only one school of thought dominate in terms of
dictating what should be done. We want to be able to listen to all
of the schools of thought and choose what is appropriate for our
situation.
The
second point is that there are issues that are not religious. For
example, when we talk about education, if we want to introduce
reform in the area of applied sciences, what’s that got to do with
religion? If we want to introduce languages other than Arabic as a
part of the curriculum, what’s that got to do with religion? Many
aspects of reform have nothing to do with religion.
So
we should not assume that the religious community is opposed to
reform. Actually many of the people who are reform-minded are very
religious. So it’s not as if the religious people want the status
quo to continue and the non-religious people are good reformers. It’s
not the case.
SUSRIS:
Do you notice a quicker pace or more progress in one area of
reform – social, political, economic – as opposed to another
area?
Sulaiman:
I think economic reform is probably the one area that is moving
faster than the others.
I’m
disappointed with education reform. Although I believe it will be
the easiest area to reform and the area that is the cornerstone for
any future development. To me it is the most important in terms of
what will happen with future generations. Unfortunately I am not
very happy with what has been done on that front. My expectations
were much higher.
The
one aspect of education reform that I’m happy with is vocational
training. Some positive things have happened there. But in terms of
higher education and primary education still I’m not very happy
with the results.
SUSRIS:
Is education the area where you feel it’s easiest to
accomplish reforms because it’s easy to identify what needs to be
done?
Sulaiman:
There are several reasons. Everybody agrees education reform is
very important. Everybody sees the importance of education as key to
the future of Saudi Arabia. There is a consensus about the fact that
it’s a problem area. Lastly, the reason you mentioned – it
should be relatively easy to identify what needs to be done.
SUSRIS:
What is necessary in terms of infrastructure and support for reform
in education? More teachers? People that have special expertise? Are
these all hurdles to be overcome or is there already a plan in place
to accomplish it?
Sulaiman:
The focus, unfortunately, on education reform has been in the
area of curriculum. Especially from those on the outside, the
curriculum is getting the blame. It deserves some criticism, but I
think there are several other aspects of education reform that are
more important.
One
is the quality of the teachers we have. We need to improve that
substantially. Next are the education policies and strategies
produced by the government and the education system. I would say
that those two areas are more important than even the curriculum
issue. For example, I know there was research done a few years back
to compare our science curriculum, engineering and all of that to
the curricula of other countries, Japan, Taiwan, some of the
progressive countries that have excellent science curriculums. It
was not found to be lacking.
So
the curriculum may not be 100% sound. In areas like the humanities
and so forth we need to fix it -- but at least in other aspects it’s
not grossly lacking. The main weakness is in the quality of
teachers, another weakness lies in the governance of the education
system. There is also weakness in the area of infrastructure, in
terms of IT support and so forth. We need to improve that.
SUSRIS:
A presentation during the Saudi trade mission in the United States
in May there was discussion about vocational training. The
government has created an agency, GOTEVOT.
Are the plans farsighted enough? Do they meet the needs of the
business community?
Sulaiman:
It’s not meeting them now but I think the plans they have put in
place will bear fruit. We are very happy with the capability of that
organization and we are very happy with the plans they have put in
place. I think it is one of the success stories. There’s good
progress in the area of vocational training. It’s the other
aspects of education that we are not happy with.
SUSRIS:
What is it about the reform situation in Saudi Arabia that people
outside the Kingdom don’t know enough about?
 Sulaiman:
I think the main message is about how far the reforms have gone in
Saudi Arabia and that the pace of reform will continue -- not only
for foreign observers watching Saudi Arabia but also for Saudis
themselves.
It
is important that regardless of what the pace is and how far the
reforms will go they will continue. We need to get beyond the
absence of a clear shared vision. We need to manage the
expectations, to focus on our resources and to create a clear
objective for ourselves.
The
observer of Saudi Arabia should, regardless of their perspective on
these issues, should admit clearly that there is a reform movement
in place. Although we will differ about the assessment of the reform
movement we have to be truthful and say that the reform movement is
in place.
It’s
not a PR gimmick. King Abdullah and many of the leadership are very
serious about reform. They see the importance of reform being in
place but it’s not an easy proposition. So if we’ve had some
disappointments it is because it’s a very complex issue. We need
to develop our capability to implement the plans and aspirations
that we have.
SUSRIS:
Let’s turn to the condition of US-Saudi relations. When you
talked about the business component of the relationship you
mentioned the fact that there are international competitors facing
off against the American business community. They are gearing up and
are very enthusiastic about doing business in Saudi Arabia. How do
you see American businesses reacting to the competition? Is the
message getting through?
Sulaiman:
Unfortunately the message is not getting through. Of course
there are a few companies that have been in Saudi Arabia for many
years and are keen on maintaining their market share and their
presence but that’s the exception rather than the rule.
There
are new opportunities that are developing and unfortunately the
American businesses are not there to take advantage of them.
There
is a substantial increase in spending, both in the government and
private sectors. There are many new projects that are coming up,
many new opportunities. Many are in sectors that recently have been
opened for investment, that were previously government monopolies.
So you need new businesses, not established businesses to make use
of these opportunities.
Unfortunately
American businesses are not there in force to look into these new
opportunities. Europeans and Asian companies are really taking over.
They’re not waiting to be asked to come. The Chinese, Japanese,
Malaysians, South Africans, the Europeans, they’re all there in
force. I would like to see more American companies making use of
these opportunities, specifically because of the relationship
between the US and Saudi Arabia is, on the strategic level, much
more important for both our countries in comparison to our
relationship with other countries.
SUSRIS:
Do you know if there are conclusions to be made from the Saudi trade
mission that visited the US in May?
Sulaiman:
The Saudis who participated in that trade
mission were very positive about it. I can only tell you what I
heard from them; it takes time for results to materialize. It doesn’t
happen in a few days, but they were very positive on the response
they received during the trade mission.
SUSRIS:
What is it that has caused American businesses to have to be asked
to come to the Kingdom when Europeans and Asians are looking towards
Saudi Arabia? Is it that the post-9/11 problems have yet to be
resolved?
Sulaiman:
Yes, I think it is the post-9/11 environment. The images that have
been conjured up by the media on what is happening in Saudi Arabia
do not reflect the actual situation. There are also the travel
warnings about Saudi Arabia from the State Department. All of these
have created images of something really horrible happening in Saudi
Arabia that is far from the truth.
As
I was telling the audience here today, lets look at the facts. The
fact is that the last attack, terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia was
nine months ago. The fact is that the number of foreign visitors in
the Kingdom who have died is just a handful in the last few years.
Every death is regrettable and mourned, but let’s keep the true
scale of the problem in perspective.
The
threat has been blown way out of proportion. So people feel unsafe
about traveling to Saudi Arabia when it should not be the case. The
case is that Saudi Arabia is still one of the safest countries to
live in, despite the fact that Saudi Arabia is fighting terrorism
alongside the United States. The crime rate is still one of the
lowest in the world. So business people and others need to look at
the big picture. I say the message is, look at the facts and if you
look at them carefully you will see it is still safe to travel and
work in Saudi Arabia.
SUSRIS:
An important element in the relationship, and one specifically
identified in the Crawford
Summit joint resolution, is the people to people connection. How
would you evaluate the condition in this regard?
Sulaiman:
There are three areas that are important for us to focus on. First
is in the area of economic ties -- the business-to-business
connections. Second is for tourists from Saudi Arabia to travel to
the US. As I mentioned earlier people will do business and vacation
in countries that they like. If they don’t like America they won’t
go on vacations there. You have to feel an affinity for a country to
want to go there. Third is education. When Saudi students come to
the States to get their education they return as the best
ambassadors for the US when they go home. These are three important
aspects to focus on in terms of improving relations between the
countries.
SUSRIS:
How do you rate the ease at which travelers can go back and forth?
Sulaiman:
It is easier now than it was before to enter Saudi Arabia. Is it at
the level it should be? The answer is no. Is it at the level that
even the leadership in Saudi Arabia admits it should be? No.
Even
the government admits that improvements so far are just the first
steps. Everyone wants it to get better and make it easier and more
accessible for non-Saudis to come to Saudi Arabia.
SUSRIS:
How about students and others who want to come to the United States?
Sulaiman:
It is easier than it was. The US Consulate in Jeddah has issued
40% more visas this year than last year. There are more Saudis
interested in traveling to the US. The process is easier but it is
not as good as both sides would like it to be. There are still
difficulties due to certain security measures at the consulate.
Security is necessary but there can be measures employed that will
ease those difficulties.
The
most important aspect I think is that a Saudi tourist – especially
after using a process that is rigorous in terms of getting a visa
– wants to be treated with dignity when they arrive at their
destination. They don’t want to be insulted. They don’t want to
spend several hours in the airport answering questions, being
searched unnecessarily, being humiliated and spending several hours
before being allowed to leave the airport.
So
if they get a visa they would like that visa to be respected for
entry into the US. After paying all the expenses and bringing their
family so far they don’t want to be refused entry at their
destination in the US.
SUSRIS:
You know Americans very well and you know the issues. What is the
greatest misconception Americans have about Saudi Arabia?
Sulaiman:
Two misconceptions rather than one. One is that the
misconception about Islam in general. It is unfortunate that most of
the terrorists are Muslim. However, you cannot equate the two
together. Islam is completely different from the beliefs of these
terrorists. The two are 180 degrees out from each other. That is one
misconception.
The
other misconception is that Saudis are all terrorists. The vast
majority of people in Saudi Arabia are absolutely and totally
against what the terrorists are doing. Although there might be some
who share their grievances the overwhelming majority do not approve
of their methods.
Some
might disagree with the US policies in the Middle East but that does
not give anyone the right to use violence, to attack the US in New
York or Washington or in Iraq or wherever. So the grievances might
be widely shared but the methods of the terrorists are totally
un-Islamic and un-Saudi. The vast majority is against them. A very,
very small number of people, less than one percent, would agree with
what has been happening.
SUSRIS:
Do you have final thoughts to share with our readers?
Sulaiman:
I think Saudi Arabia is undergoing a lot of change now and I think
it’s all positive change. I would like to see the pace quicken,
but that’s my own personal view.
Right
now is a fantastic time to build bridges with Saudi Arabia because
new opportunities are coming up and they are all positive
opportunities. The investment outlook is fantastic. People are
upbeat about the future, very optimistic about the future.
It’s
the right time to be there. It’s the right time to be doing
business with Saudi Arabia. If you have a business that has been in
Saudi Arabia before it is the right time to renew that relationship.
If you have not done business with Saudi Arabia it is the right time
to start.
SUSRIS:
Thanks so much.
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Doctor Ghassan
and H.E. Usamah al Kurdi, a member of the Consultative Council of
Saudi Arabia, appeared at a televised forum organized by the 