This is part two of the SUSRIS interview with Assistant Secretary C. David Welch, head of the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.  Visit www.SUSRIS.org for part one and for an introduction to the interview.  Check below for links to these items and for a complete transcript of the interview.

Patrick W. Ryan

C. David Welch
Assistant Secretary of State, Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs
Washington, DC, March 21, 2006

[Part 2]

SUSRIS: Secretary Welch, can we talk about regional issues that the United States and Saudi Arabia are concerned about, starting with Iraq? Is there a role for Saudi Arabia in working with the United States in Iraq?

Assistant Secretary of State C. David Welch: Yes, we have an important -- take the Strategic Dialogue for example -- an important component of that at the ministerial level is really to have a common look at what the significant issues are for our national security concerns -- theirs and ours in this region. 

The ones that we discuss are ones that are out there in the public domain. For example, Iran, Iraq, Arab-Israeli Peace, reform issues in Saudi Arabia and across the region, the bilateral relationship and, you know, the kingdom is a significant player in the region and has a leadership role in the GCC, for example, shares a border with a number of key places. So we believe that not only that it has a natural interest in some of these issues but can also play an effective role. 

The style of diplomacy for Saudi Arabia is, as you know, a bit different than ours but we understand that and the important thing is to have a sense of common purpose and then to carefully, quietly define those areas of joint endeavors so that we can assure our mutual needs are met. 

I�ll give you an example of that and then we can come back to more detail in other questions. There are issues of concern to us that are discussed in inter-Arab councils, be that the GCC or Arab League. And we have a quiet and very effective dialogue with Saudi Arabia as we do with America�s other friends in the area to specify what those issues are, hear their advice on how to tackle them. We respect that advice. It is very useful to us as we go out and make our policy more effective. 

SUSRIS: Specifically concerning Iraq, are there any efforts going forward that you can comment on such as the Saudis role in organizing the Arab League�s reconciliation conference in Cairo in November? 

Welch: They continue to be important in the process of government formation, which is done on the principle of unity and reconciliation. You know they look at Iraq as a nation that is part of the Arab nation. And they see maintaining the unity and sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq under stable effective government representing all Iraqis as a hugely important objective. And we think they have a role to play in counseling Iraqis, particularly certain Iraqis about how to do that. As you know, they have been reaching out to Iraqis to get that point across and hosting some of them for visits.

SUSRIS:  Saudi Arabia proposed an Islamic stabilization security force for Iraq over a year and a half ago. Secretary Powell was in Riyadh when it was tabled. What happened to that idea? Did it just not have any legs?

Welch: Well, it remains an interesting and perhaps useful idea. But the response of the international community to coalition building inside Iraq has been uneven. There is not much of a presence there of forces from any Muslim nations and there hasn�t been much creativity or willingness on the part of certain other Muslim nations in looking at ideas about how to do that that might be, say different or more comfortable to them than supporting the present coalition. 

You know there was a Saudi idea that surfaced at one point, others talked at another juncture about a Muslim force to protect the UN presence in Iraq, and that idea also didn�t find fertile ground. I think as Iraq stabilizes and, you know, despite all the news we see, there is progress toward that objective. Maybe some countries will rethink these positions. 

Right now from the point of view of the United States what would be an enormously useful, on the part of Arab nations particularly, is that they increase their diplomatic representation. Not all Arab nations are represented in Baghdad and I think that would be useful to the Iraqi government and that would be useful to the Iraqi people. 

SUSRIS: Iran. Can you comment on how the United States and Saudi Arabia are dealing with Iran?

Welch: Well I think we are both gravely worried about what we see as the emphasis from this new leadership in Tehran since their election last summer on broadening Iran�s regional power outreach. In some cases it is a very negative trend. Their language and their actions are alarming. That�s quite a bit separate from what I call their nuclear misbehavior, which is a long-term problem of some gravity. We have a good dialogue with the Saudi government on these issues, regularly reinforced by high level contacts. We have a very clear understanding of the strategic threat here and a common sense that it has to be addressed. 

SUSRIS: Israel-Palestine. How will the United States and Saudi Arabia deal with the new situation in the Palestinian authority, the Hamas electoral victory, with everyone struggling with how to continue funding for the Palestinians? 

Welch: Well, our objective is to see a Hamas government either assent to the same principles everybody in the international community. Moreover it should assume the responsibility, with all that entails, to try to govern under circumstances where it does what is necessary for the interests of its people. 

The Saudi government sponsored a peace initiative with the Arab League at the Beirut summit [2002]. To this day Hamas has not indicated its position on those Arab League resolutions, which were mirrored again in successive summits in Tunis and Algiers. 

Those are necessary, but not sufficient, to meet the three baskets that concern the international community: the acceptance of Israel as a fact, the renunciation of violence and terrorism and the acceptance of all the prior agreements and obligations including the �roadmap.� No one wants to throw out all that work over the last years but regrettably to this moment we see no indication on the part of Hamas as the party that it is prepared to accept any of these things. 

Once it becomes the government I think the responsibility grows for them. They live right next to Israel. They have daily obligation to their own people for interaction with Israel. How they are going to satisfy their needs is a really complicated question. 

We�ve discussed this with the Saudis -- the Secretary of State did personally. Our concern is that no assistance should go to the Hamas government. We will organize ourselves accordingly. I think we will have very good support from the international community for that outcome. That doesn�t mean that we would impose any kind of collective punishment on the Palestinian people. On the contrary our intention is to protect against their humanitarian difficulties which may well be imposed on them by the unwillingness of the new government to deal with some of the concerns of the international community. We hope it doesn�t come to that. 

SUSRIS: Prince Turki told us that Saudi Arabia has never provided funds to Hamas, or to Fatah for that matter, but they would provide funding for humanitarian requirements through third parties such as the Arab League and the UN in a way similar to the position taken by the EU.

Welch: Well the EU has taken the position that it is going to review all its assistance. And they are substantial supporters to the budget of the Palestinian Authority and my guess is there is a significant risk to continuing that support. I can�t speak for them at this juncture. 

Everybody agrees, however, that humanitarian assistance is likely to be necessary. The question then will be then how you go about doing that, and there may be different approaches depending on who the partners are. But a key consideration for us in all this would be, not to assist the government or its ministries if they are under Hamas leadership and not to contribute directly to Hamas as an organization or any entity representing it. 

SUSRIS:  Can you comment about the political, social and economic reforms taking place in the kingdom -- the National Dialogue, municipal elections, women�s issues and so forth?

Welch: We see a number of good steps forward. Plainly King Abdullah has reenergized this using his mantle now as king. We think King Abdullah is a reformist. 

The way this is done in Saudi Arabia is up to the Saudis, but we are very interested in it. Prince Turki has led, here, an effort to broaden this dialogue and is personally in charge of the partnership working group under the Strategic Dialogue so that we can have these interactions about these subjects. 

As you know the social situation, economic situation, political situation in Saudi Arabia can be quite a bit different than in most Arab countries and certainly different from here. No one has a magic prescription as to how to go about doing this. But I think some of the ideas that we see now in play in the kingdom are really quite interesting. I�ve lived there and I know they do things at their own pace. Our view is if the objective is more clear, and the pace is certain, then that�s a good thing. 

SUSRIS: Congress has gotten itself involved in some aspects of the US-Saudi political relationships in the past year or two. Can you comment about the role Congress is playing in shaping US policy toward Saudi Arabia?

Welch: There are a lot of important voices in the Congress on issues involving the region. It�s very important to pay attention to those, particularly on any specific concerns regarding Saudi Arabia. You know sometimes those are portrayed quite dramatically by the media and others. The key question is, is there a will to find a way to work on some of these issues. Some of them are very tough. If you look at some of the questions involving child custody, for example, which have been a feature of Congressional attention in the past. These are socially very difficult on both sides. Happily there�s a spirit of willingness to carefully and quietly look at some of these matters and see if we can�t do something about them. I think we have managed to strengthen that joint effort in recent months. And some of these problems are not unique to the kingdom. We have custody issues regrettably with quite a number of governments but they get a special flavor when Saudi Arabia is involved. 

I think Prince Turki�s work to go out and talk to Americans including in the Congress is hugely important in this regard. You know, in the Kingdom there needs to be a greater effort to not demonize certain aspects of what America represents. 

In the United States there should be an effort also not to demonize the Kingdom. As I said, I�ve lived there. I know that 99.99 percent of all Saudis are good people and don�t dislike our country, and they want to have a good relationship with America and Americans and I would hope the same with our citizens too. Realizing, as I said earlier, that there were going to be things that we were going to have to work on that are hard for both sides, having the right spirit to do that is essential. 

SUSRIS:  A number of analysts saw the Bush-Abdullah meeting in Crawford last year as a milestone -- moving the relationship out of the shadow of 9-11 into a new era. Is the relationship in a new era?

Welch: I think the Crawford summit was a turning point. President Bush intended it that way. He offered extraordinary hospitality of his ranch to King Abdullah in order to mark that moment. As I said, his accession to the throne is an important platform for him to energize his direction of the Kingdom. 

This is a relationship, again as I mentioned, in which there have been some enormous stresses in the last few years and one can�t just kind of wash those away. But with a good solid effort led by our President on our side and the Secretary of State and on the Saudi side by the leadership in the government up to and including the king, I think we can make a lot of progress in the coming years.

This is a relationship that is hugely important to both sides and it goes beyond the issues that are traditionally in the minds of Americans like oil and gas and commercial relations. The kingdom is the seat of the holy sites and the beacon to many Muslims world-wide. So it has a certain quality to it that�s important to us to respect and observe. That and the fact that the Middle East, despite the over two and a half decades of joint effort between Saudi Arabia and the United States, remains a troubled and stressful place that, requires and demands, for our mutual national interests, that we both take this very, very seriously. 

I think having this summit in Crawford last year, at the beginning of the second term for President Bush, really set this off in a new direction and now we�ve got the next several years while President Bush is here in office to build a relationship that his successor can inherit that will be much better than it was. 

SUSRIS: What would you tell Americans about Saudi Arabians that they may not understand very well; and what would you tell Saudi Arabians about Americans.

Welch: Well, I think for Saudis, who I hope are paying attention, America is not a hostile place. We don�t hate Arabs. We don�t hate Muslims. And we don�t hate Saudis. We do feel that people need to recognize our unique qualities as a people. We are a freedom-loving nation with lots of different kinds of opinions and attitudes here. Pluralism is a good thing and we embrace change. 

When you look at the Kingdom and try to explain the Kingdom to Americans then I think you almost, in a sense, have to look at the flip side of that coin. It�s a much more homogenous society than our own. Because it has the holy places it has a certain character and quality. Americans generally don�t have a very good appreciation or understanding of Islam, particularly as it is observed in the Kingdom. 

There needs to be a lot of work done by the Saudis to explain that to Americans so that it is not seen as such a threatening thing. I feel privileged because at a key point in my career I was able to represent our country in the Kingdom. I think I understand it a little bit better than most Americans but even for me it remains a lesson that I have to study every day because countries change even if they do so in ways that are not immediately transparent to those on the outside. 

I commend Prince Turki for going out there and talking to regular Americans as much as he can, just as we ask Ambassador Oberwetter to get out and meet as many Saudis as possible. We have a substantial diplomatic mission in the kingdom and we want them out there as much as possible to engage with people trying to show a good look for America.

SUSRIS:  Thank you again, Mr. Welch, for sharing your time and your views on US-Saudi relations. 

Interview with Assistant Secretary C. David Welch:

• Introduction by Patrick W. Ryan

• Part One - The State of the Relationship

• Part Two - Regional Issues

• Complete Interview

• Saudi Arabia and Congress: Understanding the Tension - David T. Dumke - SUSRIS IOI - Mar. 15, 2006

• Saudis Look East for Higher Studies - SUSRIS IOI - Mar. 13, 2006

• Outreach and Engagement: A Conversation with Saudi Arabia's New Ambassador to the United States - Part 1 - SUSRIS Interview - Mar. 9, 2006

• Tackling the Information Gap - Saudi Arabia's New Ambassador to U.S. Promises Openness and Engagement - 
  Patrick W. Ryan - SUSRIS IOI - Mar. 8, 2006

• Secretary of State Rice and Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal - Remarks to the press in Riyadh - SUSRIS IOI - Feb. 23, 2006

• Prince Turki al-Faisal Talks With Charlie Rose - Saudi Arabia's Ambassador to the US Takes His Message to Americans - Part 1 - Relations, Oil - SUSRIS IOI - Feb. 18, 2006

• Working Shoulder-to-Shoulder for Better Saudi-US Relations: An Open Letter from a Saudi Businessman - Amr Khashoggi - SUSRIS IOI - Jan. 12, 2006

• More Saudi Students in U.S. - Joel Brinkley - SUSRIS IOI - Dec. 18, 2005

• Saudi-US Strategic Dialogue - Secretary Rice, Foreign Minister Saud al Faisal - Meeting the Press - SUSRIS IOI - Nov. 13, 2005

• King Abdullah Interview - SUSRIS IOI - Oct.22, 2005

• Richard Haass Comments on King Abdullah Interview - SUSRIS IOI - Oct. 22, 2005

• On Relations and Reforms: A Conversation with Usamah al Kurdi - SUSRIS IOI - Sep. 30, 2005

• In Pursuit of Understanding: Karen Hughes in Saudi Arabia - SUSRIS IOI - Sep. 29, 2005

• Secretary Rice, Foreign Minister Saud Al-Faisal Meet the Press - SUSRIS IOI - Jun. 21, 2005

• Building Bridges: A Conversation with Princess Loulwa Al-Faisal - SUSRIS IOI - Jun. 2, 2005

[for more SUSRIS items visit www.SUSRIS.org and use the site search engine to look for "relationship"]