Earlier this month Prince Turki al-Faisal talked to CNN's Wolf Blitzer about a number of issues of the day including the cartoon controversy, the tragic loss of a ferry sailing from Saudi Arabia to Egypt and other concerns shared by Americans and Saudi Arabians. This week Prince Turki returned to American television, this time on Public Broadcasting's Charlie Rose interview show. It was just one of a number of recent public appearances that permitted him to, as he put it, "try to explain what Saudi Arabia is, where it comes from and where it is going." [Check the SUSRIS.org web site for transcripts of other public remarks.]

SUSRIS is pleased to present a transcript of Charlie Rose's interview with Prince Turki.  The broadcast originally aired February 13, 2006. The ambassador discussed the bilateral relationship, Saudi Arabia's role in the production of much of the world's energy supplies (Part 1), developments in Iraq and Iran, the partnership between the US and Saudi Arabia in the war on terror (Part 2) and the situation between Palestinians and Israelis (Part 3). It is presented in three sections due to its length.

Prince Turki Al-Faisal was appointed Saudi Arabia's Ambassador to the United States in July 2005. He presented his credentials to President George Bush in Washington on December 2, 2005. He succeeded Prince Bandar bin Sultan who served as Saudi Ambassador in Washington from 1983 to 2005. Prince Turki attended Georgetown University in Washington. He was appointed an Advisor in the Royal Court in 1973. From 1977 to 2001, he served as the Director General of the General Intelligence Directorate (GID), the Kingdom�s main foreign intelligence service. In 2002, he was appointed Ambassador of to the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland. 

Prince Turki al-Faisal Talks With Charlie Rose
The Charlie Rose Show - PBS
February 13, 2006 - Part 2

ROSE: You gave what you thought was wise counsel to the United States, and so did your brother, the foreign minister, and I�m sure then-crown prince, now-king did as well, as other people, not to invade Iraq. Because you believed, one, the consequences would be severe in terms of what we see now, but also because you believed that the regime might topple of its own weight at some point? 

PRINCE TURKI: Of course. When I was Director of Intelligence in Saudi Arabia and from 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, and then subsequently the United Nations put all those resolutions on Iraq as punishment for its invasion of Kuwait, the regime was literally surrounded, if you like, by the world community, and eating itself away from within. 

As director of intelligence at that time, we talked with your intelligence people about helping the Iraqi people achieve some kind of recourse against this very brutal regime that had not only invaded neighboring countries, but also done so badly by its own people. And in those days, I remember all the contacts that we had within Iraq had two specific requirements and demands placed to us on whether they can act against Saddam Hussein or not. 

The first demand that they had is that we guarantee them that Saddam Hussein will not use his air power, particularly the helicopters, against them if they moved. You�ve seen how devastating it was in the first uprising in Iraq after the withdrawal of Iraqi troops from Kuwait. 

And the second demand that they made for us was to guarantee that there would be no outside interference from neighboring states in Iraq. And these were people that we were talking to within the armed forces and within the leadership of the Ba`ath Party and other political interests inside Iraq. 

And we always proposed to the United States particularly two things -- one, an extension of the no-fly zone so that it covered all of Iraq, because in those days only the south, in Operation Southern Watch, and in the north were there no-fly zones. But the middle of Iraq, where the capital was and the heartland, if you like, of Saddam and his supporters, there was no air cover on that piece of Iraq. 

But we never really got an answer from the United States from 1990 until 2001, when I left the intelligence department. 

I believe that if something like that had happened during those years, that there would have been a successful change of regime in Iraq undertaken by Iraqis from within Iraq. As it is, even without these two guarantees, many Iraqis attempted to overthrow Saddam Hussein during those years. But they failed, because he had the air power capability and because people feared that there may be outside interference should something happen inside Iraq. 

ROSE: I want to talk with you about two things.. ..The United States believes that what has to happen now after the constitution and a new government is formed and the Iraqi security forces take over more and more of the security role, the United States can withdraw, and the Iraqi government can go about taking care of the insurgency, and the occupation issue will no longer be. Is that a realistic outcome that you can foresee? 

PRINCE TURKI: I think it is realistic if all things work right. There has been a very concerted effort on the part of Saudi Arabia to try to work with all Iraqi factions, to bring them together so that they can overcome whatever differences they may have developed over the last two and a half years. That resulted in the Cairo meeting that took place in the Arab League last November, which set a course of inter-Iraqi reconciliation, if you like, and getting together that will presumably be followed by a meeting either at the end of this month or early next month in Baghdad itself, where all of the Iraqi players will get together and try to overcome their differences and achieve national cohesion and a national government. 

The good news is that in the process, in the meantime, elections took place in Iraq, in which there was nearly full participation by all parties, including the Sunni. And one of the factors I think that was not so much mentioned in the Western press particularly was that during those elections, particularly in the Sunni regions, the resistance, the local resistance played a role in protecting the voting booths from the foreign elements that were trying to disrupt the elections, and allowed Iraqi citizens to go in huge numbers, particularly the Sunnis, and vote in these elections. 

So that was a signal from those elements within the resistance who are absolutely Iraqi and seek the welfare of their Iraqi citizenship and so on that they are willing to be part of the process, the political process, by protecting the voting booths for Iraqi Sunnis. 

Now, the new government that is hopefully going to be formed by Mr. Al-Jaafari will have a chance to try to bring about a national government that represents all factions in an equitable and fair manner. 

The two things that the Sunnis have been seeking since the toppling of Saddam Hussein are, first, that they have an equal share in the resources of Iraq, mainly oil, and secondly, that they will be safe from retribution. 

ROSE: By militias? 

PRINCE TURKI: By other groups and militias once the allied forces withdraw from Iraq. 

ROSE: Because your brother, the foreign minister, once said that there is no -- while you have all these force that might be pulling it apart, the desire of the Kurds to separate and all that, there was, he said at one point, no internal dynamic that was pulling it together. But this election and the participation may very well be the internal dynamic that pulls it together? 

PRINCE TURKI: Well, we hope so. 

ROSE: Right. If -- do you worry, does the kingdom worry that if, in fact, you have a government that is primarily Shia, with respect for the minority rights of the Sunni, you have a Shia government in Iran, you know, that you�re looking to some kind of great Islamic conflict between Shia and Sunni? 

PRINCE TURKI: Not at all. I think that is basically a scenario devised mostly in American think tanks, if I can respectfully say. The dynamics of the facts are that on the ground, people, whether in Saudi Arabia or in Iraq or in Iran or in Syria or in Lebanon, wherever they may be, their basic desire is to have a good life. 

ROSE: It was King Abdullah of Jordan that said that. He worried about a Shiite crescent.

PRINCE TURKI: Yes.

ROSE: Not a think tank in America when I mentioned it to you. Although think tanks..

PRINCE TURKI: Many think tanks in America have mentioned that. 

ROSE: They have, indeed. 

Iran, I want to come to that, because there are a whole lot of things I want to make sure that we talk about this visit. Iran, do you believe they are trying to get a nuclear weapon? 

PRINCE TURKI: I would beg you not to talk about Iran, because there are contacts taking place on Iran in our part of the world, and I would not want to say something that may in one way or another be interpreted, particularly by your media, and have it reflected back there as meaning one thing or another. 

What we had to say about Iran, our foreign minister has already said that in many meetings -- I think perhaps with you as well when he met with you -- and on other occasions. So please forgive me on that. 

ROSE: I respect that, but can you give me some indication of what you might be -- a hopeful scenario that is taking place? 

PRINCE TURKI: As I told you, as I told you, I would really beg you not to ask me to do that, because I would not want to be quoted on any specific subject there in one way or another. 

ROSE: You can imagine my curiosity. 

PRINCE TURKI: Indeed. 

ROSE: To know what you think. Has Saudi Arabia pretty much rolled up most of the al Qaeda influence in its country? Have you captured most of the people? 

PRINCE TURKI: We still have a few that were -- whose names were published just a few months ago that are still about, but they are on the run, and the security forces in Saudi Arabia have the initiative. They are interjecting -- interdicting and preventing the terrorists from doing any harm.. ..We�ve been free of terrorist attacks for just over a year now. 

ROSE: There is a feeling in the United States in some quarters that you were late in coming to the game in terms of really fighting -- making it a high priority to fight terrorism in Saudi Arabia. 

PRINCE TURKI: When I was director of intelligence and before I retired in 2001, in 1997, a group of al Qaeda operatives tried to infiltrate from a neighboring country with anti-tank weapons and other military material and explosives. They were captured by Saudi Arabia. This is following from the attack in 1995. 

We shared information at that time of this group with your intelligence agency, and then-defense minister, now crown prince, Prince Sultan, came on a visit to the United States to meet with President Clinton and other officials, at which he proposed to President Clinton that Saudi Arabia and the United States form a joint committee to pursue intelligence on al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, in -- not just in our area, but worldwide. 

And Mr. George Tenet at the time was the director of your CIA. He and I were in touch with each other over this committee, and it used to meet on an as-needed case, case by case, either in the United States or in Saudi Arabia. And all of the information that we had and the information that you had was exchanged between us so that we can be sure that nobody was off-line on that issue. 

And that committee has existed until today. Today there are, as a matter of fact, two committees, one on intelligence and the other on the financial aspects of support for the terrorists. Officers from your Treasury Department and your intelligence community in all of its departments meet on a regular basis in Saudi Arabia to share intelligence on the financing of terrorist activity. 

ROSE: Conventional wisdom on that point was that -- and this again is Mr. Friedman and other points, people who talk about independence and alternative energy and not -- an oil addiction. The point they argue and people within the government as well, argue that the United States, because it spends so much money on Saudi oil and all, and realizing that it�s not as much as some people think it is, that that money goes to support charities, and those charities -- and you�ve given money to charities yourself. 

PRINCE TURKI: No Muslim can avoid giving charity. 

ROSE: And some of those charities spend that money to support terrorist organizations. And there is Mr. Crumpton, I think, has recently -- he`s going to be on this program tomorrow. 

PRINCE TURKI: Yes, it is Mr. Crumpton.

ROSE: He�s with the State Department, anti-terrorist expert, has said that they believe -- that they believe that there�s less of that today, but that the Saudis, the government and Saudi individuals, have not been as diligent as they would like them to see in terms of restricting the amount of money that goes to charities and then makes its way into coffers for terrorism. Could you speak to that? 

PRINCE TURKI: And that is why we have this committee, standing committee, on the finances of terrorist groups in Saudi Arabia. Just two and a half weeks ago, three weeks ago, an official from your Treasury Department was visiting the kingdom with a group of his colleagues, and met with all of the departments that deal with issues of charity, of financial transfers, etcetera, etcetera. And his name is Stuart Levy (ph). He, when I met him before he left the kingdom, he told me that he was extremely happy with that visit, and that it had met a lot of his questions, in terms of answers for those questions, but that he had to go back and sift through what he had seen there, to see if there was still more to be done on our side. 

We have offered all of the information that we have on those issues to U.S. officials. Plus the fact that all of the charities in Saudi Arabia from last year have been prevented from exporting any money from inside Saudi Arabia. 

ROSE: Can�t give any money to any groups outside Saudi Arabia? 

PRINCE TURKI: Anything whatsoever. All the money that comes in is kept in Saudi Arabia and dealt with through government agencies to needy people inside Saudi Arabia, under the supervision and the direction of Saudi financial institutions, whether banks or other financial regulators in the kingdom. So all of the charities that may at one time or another have aroused suspicion of exporting money from Saudi Arabia to any suspicious entities or individuals outside the kingdom have absolutely been prevented from doing that since a year ago in Saudi Arabia. 

ROSE: So that has been a great reduction in the amount of money that might have been going through charities to support terrorism, however large or small it was? 

PRINCE TURKI: Not just reduction.

ROSE: Elimination.

PRINCE TURKI: Elimination completely. Now, if there are moneys in Europe or America or in Asia or whatever, whether belonging to Saudis or non-Saudis or so on, who may wish to make that money reach terrorists or groups that support terrorism, that we ask our United States friends to tell us about. 

ROSE: But you already share all the information you said. 

PRINCE TURKI: Absolutely. And so far, nothing has come to us to indicate that that thing is happening. 

ROSE: Why are there, Americans will ask, so many young Saudi men who are part of the jihadists in Iraq? More than any other country, they come from Saudi Arabia. 

PRINCE TURKI: That is another misconception. 

ROSE: It�s not true? 

PRINCE TURKI: Not true. 

ROSE: I�m so happy you�re here then. 

PRINCE TURKI: Because the figures are -- six months ago, we sent a team of Saudi officials to Iraq to look at how many Saudis participate in this so-called suicide bombings and so on, or any of the so-called jihadist activities in Iraq. 

And they sat down with American and Iraqi officials, and reviewed the number of Saudis that had either been captured or that had been killed in such activities. 

Now, those that had been captured, at the time I think there was something like close to 500 people in custody. The Saudis were 10 percent of that total number, with other groups from other places in the world making up the rest, and many of them more than the 10 percent that the Saudis were. 

ROSE: So there were other countries that had sent more, or had come from other countries more than 10 percent? 

PRINCE TURKI: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

ROSE: What were they, what countries were? 

PRINCE TURKI: From various parts of the Muslim world.

ROSE: Syria, Iran? 

PRINCE TURKI: From everywhere.

ROSE: Jordan?

PRINCE TURKI: From the east to the west. Even from some Western countries, people that were of Islamic origin in those Western countries. Our border from our side is pretty much sealed up because of the border patrols, the electronic wiring that we have put there, the ultraviolet vision that -- binoculars and so on that we have installed all along the 900-kilometer border there. 

Our problem is from the Iraqi side. Because there is no commensurate Iraqi presence or allied forces presence on the Iraqi side. The British have taken over a strip of land from the border of Kuwait across into Iraq and so on, nearly 150 kilometers and so on, but the rest of the border, from there to Jordan, is pretty much a free-for-all, and on a daily basis practically, our border posts and our border patrols arrest infiltrators from Iraq coming into Saudi Arabia, and they probably come in for -- to find a living or sometimes try to smuggle away weapons or other contraband into the kingdom. 

So we�ve asked your security people and the Iraqi government to beef up the border patrols on the Iraqi side, and we�re still waiting for action there. 

ROSE: They have, in fact, done that on the Syrian side. 

PRINCE TURKI: But not on our side. 

ROSE: But not on the Saudi side, and not on the Iranian side? 

PRINCE TURKI: Not on the Iranian side.

ROSE: So that�s where they�re primarily coming through, the Iranian side and the Syrian side? 

PRINCE TURKI: Absolutely. From our side, it�s practically impossible, because it�s an open border, a very flat border. It�s a desert border. So they can be picked up very easily, whether they�re going across from Saudi Arabia into Iraq or coming from Iraq into Saudi Arabia. 

ROSE: There is much talk in Iraq that somehow there is increasing tension between the insurgents who are made up of Ba`athists and nationalists, and the jihadists who come from outside. 

Do you hear that? Can you confirm that based on your knowledge and how serious is that split?

PRINCE TURKI: What I mentioned to you about the elections of resistance protecting the polling booths..

ROSE: From the jihadists.

PRINCE TURKI: .. from the jihadists, so that the Sunnis can vote in large numbers definitely fortifies that impression and seconds it. And I think it is probably true. Nobody likes to see his countrymen being indiscriminately killed, and the jihadists have been targeting mostly Iraqis, whether at polling booths or at police stations, sometimes in shopping centers, in hospitals, in schools or whatever. So they�ve definitely alienated the majority of the Iraqi people, whether Sunni or otherwise. And so I would agree with that impression. 

Source: SaudiEmbassy.net

Prince Turki al-Faisal Talks With Charlie Rose
The Charlie Rose Show - PBS
February 13, 2006

• Part 1 - Relations, Oil

• Part 2 - Iraq, Iran, War on Terror

• Part 3 - Middle East Peace

• Issues of the Day: Saudi Ambassador to the US On Sunday Talk Show - SUSRIS IOI - Feb. 6, 2006

• Community and Cooperation - Prince Turki Al-Faisal - SUSRIS IOI - December 2, 2005

• The Global Scourge of Terrorism: Ambassador Prince Turki al Faisal Shares His Outlook - SUSRIS Item of Interest - Nov. 8, 2005

• Prince Turki Al-Faisal's Views on Terrorist Attacks and Bin Laden - SUSRIS IOI - Dec. 7, 2004

• Saudi ambassador�s credentials accepted by United States

• Transcript of interview with Prince Turki Al-Faisal in the New York Times Magazine

• Prince Turki Al-Faisal interviewed on CNN�s �Wolf Blitzer reports�

• The Charlie Rose Show

About Prince Turki al Faisal

• Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia Bio

• BBC Profile

• Global Security.org