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Editor's Note:
The Saudi-U.S.
Relations Information Service would like to
thank the Middle
East Policy Council for permission to share
this series with our readers. These
presentations were made at the 35th Capitol
Hill Conference on U.S. Middle East Policy
on January 23, 2004. The conference was
hosted by the Middle
East Policy Council. This item
provides the panel presentation of Mr. Hussein
Shobokshi, President, Shobokshi Development and
Trading and Managing Director, Okaz Printing and
Publishing. Individual
transcripts will be provided separately by email
and posted on-line -- see links below.
We invite you to
participate in a discussion of this issue with
other SUSRIS readers and web site visitors.
Visit
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Also check below for
related items published in the Saudi-American
Forum and the Saudi-US
Relations Information Service.
Middle
East Policy Council
35th in the Capitol Hill Conference Series on U.S. Middle East Policy
Saudi
Arabia: Enemy or Friend?
Transcript -- Hussein
Shobokshi , President, Shobokshi Development & Trading; Managing
Director, Okaz
Printing and Publishing
CHAS. W. FREEMAN: And we come now to
Hussein Shobokshi. Hussein, I feel sorry for you. Having sat in Saudi Arabia,
or, as you know, in groups of Saudis, and heard my own country discussed in
terms that cause my hair to rise and my skin to crawl, I sympathize with you,
having sat through four excellent but undoubtedly not terribly pleasant
presentations from your point of view. And I invite you to come up and to give
us your view of what is happening now in Saudi Arabia and your view of the
present and future of the U.S.-Saudi relationship.
HUSSEIN SHOBOKSHI:
Thank you, Chas. Being the fifth speaker here, I feel like Elizabeth Taylor's
sixth husband: I know exactly what I'm supposed to do and also keep it
interesting, but I'll give it a try anyway. (Laughter)
I'm just going to answer the question raised here. Saudi Arabia is not a foe;
Saudi Arabia is a friend. There are some Saudis who dislike America and its
policies, of course. I don't think it's a secret. But I think there is the
same number of people of Americans who hate Saudi Arabia and its policies who
are very confused about it.
But I simply cannot address this question without addressing the issue of
hypocrisy here. All these issues have existed for the longest time between
both countries. For the longest times - the issues of curriculums, sermons in
the mosques, political reform. They have always been there, but they were
neglected. Nobody has ever discussed them openly like they do today. We should
ask ourselves frankly, Americans and Saudis, why were these issues never
raised? Why weren't there any frank discussions? Why was it always taboo to
discuss reform in Saudi Arabia, educational reform, social reform?
When we reach the answer to that question, we will begin to realize the heart
of the issue. It was simply a win-win situation. People have had a cordial
relationship, you know, at a very distant arm's length, but it was a very fake
relationship. I think it was - I've heard the word "secret marriage"
being referred to describing the Saudi-American relationship. Probably that is
true. Now it should be out in the open. Do we want to maintain this marriage,
do we want to seek a marriage counselor, or do we want a divorce? I think
there is tremendous interest in maintaining this relationship, but we have to
address these issues, and there are a lot of them.
In today's Washington Post article we saw the news item about Al Haramein, the
infamous charitable organization, but when I read this piece of news I don't
see any reference to the discussions that took place in Saudi Arabia about Al
Haramein. I personally have in today's edition of al-Sharq al-Awsat, the
leading paper in Saudi Arabia, an article addressing the issue of managerial
changes in Al Haramein, because they've just fired the guy and replaced him
with his deputy. That's not a change, but nobody refers to these discussions
which have been taking place. I wrote seven articles about these issues -
myself, alone, seven articles - and believe me, I got a lot of very fantastic
and odd e-mails. It made me sympathetic with Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks,
but there are people who simply don't want to discuss these issues at the
moment over there. But now it's being discussed, it's being reformed.
Unfortunately, I don't see that referred to in the Washington Post. This is a
very odd way of dealing with an important subject because it is not only a
political decision. I think it is also a social decision as well on behalf of
a lot of Saudis, who want to know where the money goes.
Before his status as a famous best-seller, we had a meeting with Mr. Paul
O'Neil in his previous visit to Saudi Arabia. I think it was in November,
right after the events of September the 11th, and we had the opportunity to
sit with him, seven businessmen in Jeddah, and we blessed his and agreed with
his policies of seeking and tracking down questionable finance techniques, be
it through banks or through charitable organizations in Saudi Arabia. But we
begged him, we begged him to have a universal policy against terror. I think
white supremacist groups and neo-Nazis in America, Tim McVeigh's, there were
traces of these monies coming from Central Europe, mainly from Germany,
Switzerland and Austria, and from companies that were dealing with neo-Nazi
organizations in America. Nothing has happened to these people.
We know that tobacco companies were involved with the Sandinistas in Central
America to secure the routes of tobacco. Nothing happened. The IRA example has
been discussed already. And please, since Hamas was brought on the table - and
I fully agree. I take this position clearly. I fully agree suicide operations
are illegal. They are not right. They are not even Islamic. But guess what? So
are kibbutzes in occupied territories. Financing these kibbutzes on
Palestinian land is also illegal, and that's also financing terror. So we
should have an equal policy on both sides of the game.
Saudi Arabia, by the way, is not yet a nation. It's a country, and there's a
big difference between the two entities. We saw that clearly as Saudis when
the discussions took place in what is now called the second round of the
national dialogue. On that table alone we had more flavors than Baskin
Robbins, believe me. There were seculars, there were Shiites, there were
Sufis, there were Selafis representing the mosaic that exists in Saudi Arabia
today. To a large number of people around the world Saudi Arabia is black and
white: women wearing black and men wearing white. The issue is much bigger
than that. Saudi Arabia is like any other country. It's the largest country in
the Middle East in terms of size. It's also made up of many, many ethnic and
religious sects. These were never discussed. Again, it was part of the
hypocrisy that existed for the longest time. The government has decided to
address these issues head-on, and it's doing a good job and we are trying to
support it, but again, these good stories are never told about Saudi Arabia,
are never discussed about Saudi Arabia.
Sermons of hate must never be allowed in Saudi Arabia, and there are a lot of
them. I do agree. There is reform in mosques around Saudi Arabia. They have
had a lot of firings of imams in different mosques. But you know, they do
these sermons under the name of protecting religion. That should not be
allowed. By the same token, I don't think a military officer nor the son of a
famous preacher should be granted that right under the name of freedom of
speech to insult another religion. Equality, a fine and important element of
democracy in America, is absent in issues like that. We as Saudis do look
forward to America to exercise that option and that right on events like that.
Saudis are reforming their lives. There is still a great deal to be done --
believe me, a great deal to be done. There is social reform, economic reform,
religious reform, political reform. Don't worry, I will not do a Howard Dean
on you, but there are a lot of areas that are being addressed today in Saudi
Arabia. We need more exchanges.
I think the interest between America and Saudi Arabia has been extremely,
extremely focused on the economic side of things. I'll give you a part of
myself. Why am I wasting my time and my money in coming - this is my fourth
visit to America. Because I have a seven-year-old daughter that I would like
to attend an American university. I brought my brother-in-law, who is sitting
here in the front row with me. My sister is still going to school here. I have
been involved in the first private college for women in Saudi Arabia, and we
have seven - seven - associations with Berkeley, Columbia, Nebraska and other
universities, all in America. We are unable to recruit anybody because Saudi
Arabia is perceived as, you know, the devil's headquarters, unfortunately.
I would like that to be changed, but I think, you know, I would like to see
the same interest from America as well. There is a very dangerous message
being sent from members of the American administration, and it's nothing short
but from a lie. It's simply not true. You read Perle's book and I can see
seven lawsuits in it, really, addressed against -- some factual and dangerous
messages are being sent here. There are more important messages that I would
like to address, believe me, and I would save it more for the Q&A, and I
thank you for your attention.
Thank you again, Chas.
CHAS. W. FREEMAN: Thank you very much, Hussein. I think one of the key
points you made - we now come, by the way, to the comment, question and answer
period, and I'll make a few remarks. Those who want to say something, please
try to do it briefly and clearly, and those who have questions, better yet try
to phrase them so we can understand them and tell us who you are. If you raise
your hand - I'm not firing the starting gun yet. Raise your hand, I will make
a note of who you are and I'll indicate that I've taken note of you and I'll
try to call you in order. We have about, thanks to Hussein's brevity, we have
about an hour and seven minutes. So we will go on.
I think Hussein just made a very important point, which is one that there is a
lot of selective listening going on on both sides, and - but at the same time,
what we say internally, in Saudi Arabia what you say internally perhaps we're
not paying enough attention to what you're saying. Maybe you're paying too
much attention to some of the stuff on Fox TV, which unfortunately is seen in
Saudi Arabia. Think about it next time you watch redneck TV here. (Laughter)
That message is received directly by the people who are being denigrated, and
their reactions are not happy ones. I sometimes think that if Radio Sawa were
to accomplish its purpose of softening Arab attitudes toward the United
States, that it could all be undone in 10 minutes of - well, you know the
shows. I won't leave myself open to slander and libel suits.
Click on a speaker's name to read a
transcript of the paper that each presented at the 35th Capitol Hill
Conference on U.S. Middle East Policy.
Speakers:
- David
Aufhauser
Former General Counsel, Department of the
Treasury
- Frank
Anderson
Former Chief, Near East and South
Asia Division, CIA
- David
E. Long
Retired U.S. Foreign Service Officer --
Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Morocco and Jordan
- Nathaniel
Kern
President, Foreign Reports, Inc.
- Hussein
Shobokshi
President, Shobokshi Development &
Trading; Managing Director, Okaz
Printing and Publishing
Hussein
Shobokshi is president of Shobokshi
Development & Trading Company, comprised of
five entities: Wareeq Paper Company, Orient
Marketing and Trading Company Ltd., Electrical
Works & Maintenance, General Agencies &
Contracting, and DECOM. He is also the
managing director of Okaz Printing and
Publishing. He has bee a data analyst in
the international department of Morgan Stanley
& Co. Inc. (1986-1996), an international
director of Shobokshi Agencies (1983-1986), a
marketing campaign director of Saudi Advertising
Company (1981-1982), and a salesman for Al
Arousah Furniture Company (1977-1981). Mr.
Shobokshi is currently a featured economic
columnist in Al Sharq Al Awsat, Arab
News, Al Eqtisadiah, Al Alam Al
Youm, Okaz and Al Medina.
He hosts the weekly economic program Al
Takreer on Al Arabiya, and in 1995, he was
chosen as one of the "Global Leaders for
Tomorrow" by the World Economic
Forum. He received his B.A. in Political
Science and Management from the University of
Tulsa.
Related
Items:
- "Ten
Reasons for Reforging the US and
Saudi Relationship," by
Anthony H. Cordesman, February 1,
2004, Item of Interest,
Saudi-American Forum
- "United
States-Saudi Arabian Relations in
Light of the Current International
Crisis" -- A joint
conference presented by California
State University, San Bernardino,
and King Saud University, Riyadh --
Summary by Mary E. Morris, January
29, 2004 - Item of Interest,
Saudi-American Forum
- "Re-inventing
Saudi Arabia: The View from
Washington," by John R.
Bradley, January 20, 2004 - Item of
Interest, Saudi-American Forum
- "Of
Virtue and Vice: The
Saudi-American Fight Against Terror
Financing," by Tanya Hsu
and Grant F. Smith, December 23,
2003 - SAF Essay #25, Saudi-American
Forum
- "Understanding
US-Saudi Relations: Challenging
Stereotypes - Amb. Chas Freeman at
SAIS," December 12, 2003,
Item of Interest, Saudi-US Relations
Information Service
- "Riyadh:
Rooting Out Al Qaeda," by
Edward S. Walker and Wyche Fowler,
November 17, 2003 - Item of
Interest, Saudi-American Forum
- "Saudi
Arabian Crown Prince Abdullah
Discusses Relations Between Muslim
and Non-Muslim Nations,"
October 19, 2003, Item of Interest,
Saudi-US Relations Information
Service
- "Strengthening
Arab-US Relations: What is Required?
A Saudi View of the Palestine
Program -- Amr Khashoggi Talks About
Regional Political Dynamics,"
October 11, 2003 - Item of Interest,
Saudi-American Forum
- Ambassador
Chas Freeman -- A Relationship in
Transition, SAF Interview,
September 12, 2003, Saudi-American
Forum
- Saudi
Officials Take on Challenges in
the Media Prince Saud Al-Faisal and
Prince Turki Al-Faisal Respond to
Charges,
September 12, 2003, Item of
Interest, Saudi-US Relations
Information Service
-
Whither
Saudi Arabia? Three Authors Try to
Penetrate a Middle East Enigma,
by David Long, September 4, 2003,
Item of Interest, Saudi-US Relations
Information Service
-
Saudi
Arabia: Current Issues and
U.S. Relations Congressional
Research Service Issue Brief for
Congress, by Alfred B. Prados,
August 21, 2003, Item of Interest,
Saudi-US Relations Information
Service
-
Views
on the Saudi-U.S. Relationship, August
12, 2003, Item of Interest, Saudi-US
Relations Information Service
- "Common
Enemy: U.S. and Saudi Arabia Unite
Against Terrorists," by
John Duke Anthony, July 15, 2003 -
Item of Interest, Saudi-American
Forum
- Saudi-American
Relations Solid Despite Shock Waves
of 9/11, July 14, 2003, Item
of Interest, Saudi-US Relations
Information Service
- "Debunking
the 'Saudi's As Enemies'
Thesis," -- "The
Approaching Turning Point: The
Future of U.S. Relations with the
Gulf States," by F. Gregory
Gause, III [2nd in a series], May
21, 2003 - Item of Interest,
Saudi-American Forum
- "Saudi
Bombings Work Against Al
Qaeda," by Wyche Fowler and
Edward S. Walker, May 20, 2003 -
Item of Interest, Saudi-American
Forum
- "Saudi
Arabia: Don't Let Bin Laden
Win!," by Anthony H.
Cordesman, May 16, 2003 - Item of
Interest, Saudi-American Forum
- "In
the Eye of Yet Another Storm:
US-Saudi Relations and the Iraqi
Campaign," by Gregory J.H.
Dowling, May 10, 2003 - Essay #14,
Saudi-American Forum
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